Episode 77- The Secrets to a Great Sex Life After 18 Years of Marriage (Part 2)
Episode 77 Show Notes
In this episode, we continue our raw and honest conversation about intimacy, desire, and the challenges that arise in marriage when those wires get crossed. We dive deeper into the dynamics of how physical affection, emotional connection, and sexual desire intertwine—and what happens when expectations and realities don’t align.
We discuss:
✔️ How differing perceptions of affection and desire impact a relationship
✔️ The importance of clear communication around physical touch and emotional needs
✔️ How assumptions about affection can lead to frustration and disconnection
✔️ The role of pornography in marriages and its deeper implications beyond just a physical act
✔️ How unmet emotional needs can sometimes drive behaviors we don’t fully understand
✔️ Strategies for creating intimacy without pressure or expectations
This conversation is a continuation of our journey toward deeper connection and understanding in marriage. If you've ever felt like you and your partner were speaking different languages when it comes to intimacy, this episode is for you.
Resources & Mentions:
🎙️ The podcast episode that sparked this conversation: Chatting with Candice Episode 118
🎙️ Chalene Johnson's Sex Playlist
If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend or leave a review—it helps others find these important conversations.
Let’s Connect! I share tons of fitness tips and more behind the scenes on my social accounts.
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Tiffany Wickes (00:01.4)
Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast. Today is a unique episode because I have a guest and my guest happens to be my husband. So we are going to talk about sexual health in a marriage. So this is not the podcast to listen to in the car with the kids probably. And it may be a great idea to actually listen to this with your husband or wife, depending on who's listening to this right now, get a pad of paper.
be able to start and stop and use this to have meaningful conversation. So when Adam and I discussed this episode last night, he wanted to know what is the objective? Why would we do this at all? And I think we were both in agreement that after 19 years of marriage, we've learned a whole heck of a lot about our own sexuality or sexuality as a couple. And if we're being fair, like it's been a little bit of a struggle, not a struggle in as much as
like doing the deed, but getting into a rhythm and a mutual, I don't know, what would you say, like level of respect for each other that we could convey some like real raw honesty about ourselves as individuals?
honesty per se, but just maybe just understanding. No, there was definitely honesty that was not happening. And I'm not saying like betrayal per se, but there were things that you desired that you didn't reveal to me. Right. then there were, you know, so anyway, we're like, I think the beginning is always a great place to start. So back up 19 years of
marriage, right? We started off as two young kids trying to just figure each other out, figure ourselves out. We weren't living together before we were married, although we did have sex a few times before marriage. And it was like three or four times and we were like, okay, we don't want to do this anymore because we want to start our marriage off right. So we stopped and then waited to get married. So needless to say, our experience with each other was pretty minimal and
Tiffany Wickes (02:15.17)
we really needed to learn each other's bodies and learn our own bodies. However, I mean, our Catholic faith really made things challenging in that respect. Like when we started out, we were using birth control and then his uncle actually cornered me when he saw me taking a pill and was like, hey, you should think about that again. And I was offended at first because I was young and immature. And so I did, and then we stopped using birth control. So stopping using birth control meant at that point,
I was gonna have to take a deep dive into my own body and my own fertility and start learning what that was like. So from your perspective, Adam, how was that going from fairly like, liberous amounts of sex, you know, because we were guarded by birth control to, well now we can't be as liberal with it unless we're just gonna pump out babies. And I know what you're thinking, like you have seven kids, you did pump out babies, but in a 15 year time span,
or I'm sorry, 17 year time span, that's not like pumping them out, you know, every 15 months or something. So I don't know, what was your perspective when we made that shift?
Tiffany Wickes (03:40.94)
the hormone-based birth control worked. So I kinda thought it just prevented conception, but it really doesn't. So it's one of those things that once you know, this has not prevented the sperm from eating the egg, it's not created embryos, it's life. Now it's like,
to continue down that road would have presented like, you know, a matter of conscience. Yeah, moral and like ethical issues. We So, you know, that was huge. then, yeah, it needed to be more intentional. It couldn't just be, you know, yeah, it was kind of uncharted territory. Like, OK, why do we do this if we're not ready for a baby?
navigate this. So once I learned natural family planning, it was like, okay, the body is very cyclical, which is nice, because now I can track it. However, we live in an aviation world where you're not coming home nine to five, and I can say, in five days, you know, my cycle is going to be this and then we'll be together. Like, I think it makes it a whole lot simpler to wait and be patient when you know there's kind of an end game. But when you live in the aviation lifestyle where you don't
really know when they're ever going to be home and it's kind of like the bird in the palm is worth two in the bush so to speak like you got to take the opportunity when you have it but when the opportunity presented itself my body was not always in a position of infertility so what that created for us over time and the reason i'm backing that way up because what that created over time was this series of absenteeism in our sex life and it was like sorry i can't sorry we can't sorry i can't so it created in my
mind a little bit of resentment towards the sexual act. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, so feel free to interject at any point. I mean, Adam has a higher sex drive than I do. And I think before kids and before household responsibilities, I was, you know, fairly wily and exciting and fun. But you know, such as every mother listening to this, I promise you are felt the exact same thing is like, God, I'm
Tiffany Wickes (06:02.948)
tired this now is just another thing I have to do and then the fun started to be removed from it just piece by piece by piece but for you like the fun of it never ended right you still saw it as something fun something bonding but from a man's perspective like what does sex mean to you well you know kind of couple things you said that I'm not saying that like I would disagree with but just maybe just a finer
Tiffany Wickes (06:47.17)
you can just say like men versus women because there's men with high quote unquote drive and there's women with high quote unquote drive and just because you don't have I think a better way to think about it after you know some of the things that I've come to learn is just like
You know, the book I read was called Come As You Are, which is basically, I can't remember the name, that's the author, but she's got her doctorate in psychology, I think. But anyway, she talked about spontaneous versus non-spontaneous. So there's almost like two different flavors of sex drive where...
Someone can have call it a quick accelerator and then someone can have a slow accelerator So I think that's to me help understand things a little bit better since I think I just have a quicker accelerator so things like spontaneous moments so spontaneous sex are gonna be much more in line with like how my body is met than someone who's not where you know, you don't say
you have a slower accelerator, or you get there, it's not like you don't have a drive, it's just things have to be lined up in a certain way. And I think that can be different than someone that, let's first say for example, I have a high accelerator, and...
that could be interrupted in other ways. Like if I wasn't getting good sleep, I wasn't getting good exercise. there's biological things that go into that. If I was having hormone imbalances, something like that. even someone with a high accelerator can still experience low libido and then vice versa. it only gets worse. I don't know if it's than that, but someone with slow accelerator compounded with those same factors would even, you it could just never,
Tiffany Wickes (08:49.6)
You could just never have the opportunity to a new leader at all. So I don't know that answers the question, but. It does. And I knew that I was wrong for having used that terminology right after it came out of my mouth because we had discussed that. see, so I have not read these books. Adam took it upon himself to read books about sexual health. I don't even know why. What prompted you to even do that? Well, I listened to a podcast with um...
Tiffany Wickes (09:20.59)
I just was searching because I like his stuff so I wanted to seek out more of his stuff so I found him. just looking for podcasts with Michael Malus. He's got his own. I was listening to him with him and he was on with this host, Candice Horvax. Horvax, like that. So it's her podcast. He was on it and I don't know why he's not usually the type of person. He's more kind of like a...
political I guess commentator than anything. But they were going down that road and she was mentioning a lot of the...
literature that was kind of popping up in this quote unquote this space and you know that book was one of them and then reading that book kind of opened up some doors to some other books you some related to sex but others not really you know good example of one that wasn't related to sex i'm not done with but about 91 percent of the way through is the body keeps the score which is written by again a
psychologist you know who was kind of getting his legs and his research in the like the early 80s when they were dealing with you know people coming back from Vietnam in trauma basically and how trauma is really kind of physically manifested in the body and she referenced his work in her book because it was like you know something like trauma
What I learned is that it's due to, a lot of times, stress that you can't escape from. So you're being trapped in this very stressful scenario. You're basically against your will, forced to deal with it, and your body is in this heightened level of stress. And then even when that stressor is removed, if you don't deal with that stress...
Tiffany Wickes (11:20.48)
appropriately and it can take a long time like you're just going to be stuck in this kind of fight flight freeze you know parasympathetic or I always get those two confused I think that's sympathetic response and you know something like sex can be the worst possible thing for you
Right, and to go back in my history, I experienced some sexual trauma when I was younger. And I haven't really gone into depth about that at this point. And I don't know if this is the time to do it, but I did. And so having anyone in between my legs was not always the most comfortable experience. especially, I think that's how I've developed this resistance to, what's the technical term?
husband or you know going down on you like I have a resistance to that and I don't particularly like it and I'm curious if that came because I've had some sexual trauma in that respect and so I've you you know my body you know such as it is will create adaptive mechanisms if you will to still experience you know joy maybe
pleasure in sex because it's supposed to be pleasurable but when there is a season in which it wouldn't have been in a particular way I think your body can overcome it in other ways so I've created like a block to that particular mode of sex but I find you know it gratifying in other ways why did I even mention that?
Okay, so yeah, there was built up trauma with me and I remember earlier in our marriage if things were getting like playful, but a little too like rough on my side, I would be like, okay, that's too much. Like I need things to be gentler. So if that's something that you know is part of your history and you haven't shared it with your husband or your wife or...
Tiffany Wickes (13:22.37)
whatever, I that could be a major reason why you guys struggle to connect sexually, just on the physical side, but on the emotional side, I mean these are all the things we're just spilling here is to help you. Like I told Adam, if we can give people some cheat codes that we've learned over 19 years to now come to a place, just in the last, what, two or three months, would you say, is like a really...
gratifying and mutually fulfilling sex life. 19 years, not that we haven't enjoyed it up to this point, but it's different now. And I mean, I think it would be valuable to talk about what are those major differences? Like why is it so different now than it was before? Well, kind going back to those like...
Tiffany Wickes (14:43.086)
It's just, is. And so you just have to understand that and you can't take it personally. So without that understanding, okay, so I think you're getting to it, without that understanding of who I am and how my body is made up, how did you feel? Because you were feeling some kind of a way about me. What do mean? If you're someone like me, that, you know...
It can be very spontaneous and then I'm with you who is not as spontaneous. You can take it personally as far as maybe there's something about me that's the problem.
And I think that's just human nature. And that's maybe kind of the more subconscious level or the conscious level. You know, I can think out loud and express the fact that like, okay, you know, we're busy. You've got things on your mind. I've got things on my mind. there's all these things going on in the background. So it's not just like, hey, you know, let's take 10 minutes out of the blue. It's just not that simple. And so what I learned is that it's a very, you know, because
of that, I wouldn't say it's the trauma, almost along the same lines, like the, for someone like you, what I feel is that with a low, a slow accelerator, it's just like there has to be groundwork laid a lot further ahead of time. So it can't just be like snap out of the blue at 10 30 at night. You know, it's been stressful all day. put the kids down, oh, finally we got a moment. Like we can enjoy each other's like, no, that's not going to work.
Tiffany Wickes (16:37.57)
there needs to be mutual cooperation with getting dinner ready, putting the kids to bed. And then sometimes it's a matter of, well, there also needs to be some sort of transitionary period, even after all the work is done. Like, okay, maybe you need to go take a bath or do some yoga or something like that just to kind of...
once again it's almost like that stress response you have to get out of that stress mode of just the day-to-day routine and be able to body your body kind of relax and then you're you'd be more open to you know because
One of the, think the best analogies is like that I read in that book, come as you are is the stress response is like you're, you're, you're fighting the tiger and your body is going to prioritize fight, flight or freeze as its response. So when your body is in a fight, flight or freeze response, the last thing it makes sense, you know, evolutionary biology, whatever you
it like the last thing it's thinking about is reproducing more humans. or even for fun yeah but your body doesn't really like we're just having sex for fun right now it's just it's always thinking reproduction. So if you you have to get out of you have to stop fighting the tiger and you have to get back to the safety of the village and that's kind of what that whole process is you have to get back to a place where like yes I'm safe the stress is coming down okay and your body can get out of that and this is just a stress response in general.
But you have to, can't be in a stress response and expect to do things like, you know, the procreative act like sex, anything like that. Like it's just, your body's not, that's not how it's built. So. Right. So for that transitionary time, you know, I have, I've been learning more like stress coping techniques on my own. And like, I can't rely on Adam to always just, okay, light the candles, lay down the rose petals, now make everything.
Tiffany Wickes (18:41.632)
pristine for me because I mean he has his own transition that needs to take place so I think like for me we we try to help each other and how we do that is a midday check-in is something we've started instituting like halfway through the day maybe 2 3 p.m. we're checking if he's home right if he's not home this is null and void like it doesn't matter but most of you don't have airline lives where your husbands are gone you know 85 % of the time they're coming home every single day so you guys could have a midday check-in to
3pm, like hey how are you doing? How are you doing? How has the family life been? How's your stress levels? You know, is there anything I can do to help reduce that for you? Can I pick something up on the way home? You know, animals sometimes bring home flowers for just no reason whatsoever, just because dark chocolate, peanut butter, and fresh flowers are probably the quickest way to my heart.
You know, like last night for instance, was like, what should we do? I'm kind of battling mastitis on my breast. And was like, well, I need a soak and a tub. And we have a show that we like to watch.
So it's like, okay, well, why don't we just fill up the tub with some Epsom salt? Why don't we get in it together? We'll prop up the iPad and we just there was nothing kinky happening in the tub We were just soaking in it with an Epsom salt and we were de-stressing Talking about the show drinking our spin dress. I mean, we're both alcohol-free right now
It's just a season that we're passing through. And I'm drinking some spin drip, kind of de-stressing together and letting all the worries just flow into the tub and then eventually down the drain. So when we got out of the tub, it was simpler to move into an accelerated state of.
Tiffany Wickes (20:22.668)
But connection, right? Because we just went to the bed, we laid down, we're still nude, but nothing, like I said, nothing kinky's happening yet. All we're doing is laying there and talking to each other. We're facing each other, we're holding hands, and we're just having a conversation, looking at each other in the eye. There's no distractions. And I I love what you said. was like, there's nothing else in the world going on right now that matters except for you and me. And...
Like I said, the kids were all in bed. We had practiced de-stressing and that's where we led to. And sometimes, I mean, that was like a, what, 50 minute, almost hour long process. It doesn't always have to take that long, but for us, like yesterday, that's what it needed. Our kid went to public school for the first time. It was just kind of a lot. I was busy. We had kids therapy. It was running all over the town, just nonstop movement. So we needed a little bit longer to kind of...
in order to connect in a way that was authentic, desired, and wasn't just either like a dutiful response to, know my husband wants to make love because it's been, you know, two or three days. Like said, I had mastitis, so, you know, if you've ever had that, that's a nightmare and a half. But I was feeling better, and we did connect, and it was awesome because I wasn't thinking about...
It wasn't thinking about kids wasn't thinking about anything other than him me and What we were about to go through so what I mean, how do you feel about that? Yeah, I mean I agree with all that I think the other thing is that you You know with my interaction with you it can't just be like in a physical energy can't just be sexual related
So, during the day, it's like, if I'm just coming up there and just playing grab ass and that's it, you're gonna feel like a piece of meat. Yeah, feel objectified. And we've been down that road once, right? Well, but it's like, know, like someone like...
Tiffany Wickes (22:25.87)
opposite. Like if you did that to me, it would have a different reaction. I'd be like, boy, here we go. But for someone like you, that's just not the case. We're just different like that. But you still need attention and affection to feel loved and valued more than just physically. And so that's a big part of it. The other part of it is that, you know...
And this is definitely something I think that was an issue for us was you got to the point where you would almost like I wouldn't say
you know, retreat at an advance of, know, if I touched you or anything like that, but it was like, okay, I know where he wants this to go. So I don't want to reciprocate at all because I'm just not feeling like that right now. Like I'm tired of beat. I'm, you know, this, this was a long day. I'm like, feel like I'm getting sick, like whatever it is, like you have to have the ability to know that if you're just like, no, like, let's just hug or whatever and do that. Like,
you're not going to get any pushback from me. Like it has to always be, cause it's a, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a flow throughout the day and it's a reaction. And if it gets to the point where you're just like, no, I don't want to do that. has to be like, okay, I can say that I don't want to do that tonight or maybe tomorrow night or something. But that to me has to, that was a big shift is, know, no, like helping you to know that if I'm touching you, like it's not, that's not the only thing going through my mind.
Right, but was it previously? Because I feel like that's where we got, like you were trying to like foreplay it throughout the day by touching me and then if I returned the advance, I was just trying to be affectionate and share that I also love you and I'm attracted to you, but in your brain that was computing like, all right, we're laying the groundwork for sex. So then we get to the end of the day and you're like, yeah, but you grabbed my butt today and I'm like.
Tiffany Wickes (24:28.75)
Didn't equal sex that just equaled like I'm trying to show you that I desire you as a husband and like I find you attractive but then it ended up like biting us in the ass because when you Didn't feel desired by me like specifically like me advancing sex upon you Then you just didn't feel desired and then looked elsewhere for
moment of feeling desired. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Well yeah, I think that you I would say struggle with a lot of guys struggle is just you you start looking at porn and you you know which is like total fiction.
You know, it's written that way for a reason, because it scratches all the itches. Like you see a woman who's just like, you know, in an incredible state of desire. And that's what a lot of guys want. And so it's it's it is it is attractive. is like satisfying and. You know, but. And so, you know, I communicated to you like.
you it's like the famous song, and I'm gonna, the, the, I want you to want, I want you to want me, right? I think it's cheap, cheap trick, maybe, is it the band? don't know, someone will correct us. But, so, yeah, that's the thing, it's like, I want you to want me, but, kinda that, like, death spiral starts as if, like, anytime I advance on you, and you feel like you're reciprocated at all, that means, like, oh, green light.
Well, you're going to stop doing that and then it just becomes worse and worse. Because now you just get home like, man, she never does anything. Right. So it was like you wanted to feel desired. So I showed you that you were desired. in your brain, that turned on the like we're going to.
Tiffany Wickes (26:22.922)
sex switch and then for me like I wasn't there so then you were like okay so maybe I'm not but I'm like you were and then the times that we did have sex I was like okay see I'm showing you desire but that didn't look like desire to you that look that was willingness so we were completely crossing those lines of communication where
you know, he was perceiving my advances or willingness one way and I was seeing my willingness and advances another way and we just didn't have that, maybe we didn't have the language or something. I don't know if we didn't have the language, we didn't have the maturity, we didn't have this advanced level of understanding with each other because for, no kidding, like 18.75 years, I thought,
being a willing participant in sex was the same as being desirous. I thought, well, we're doing it, aren't we? So clearly I'm desiring you. And it was like, no, that wasn't even the same. So when it came to that conversation of desire, and that got brought up, by the way, because I didn't know about him watching porn for a minute. And that actually got brought up because of a different podcast that I listened to that I freaking love. It's, Colleen, why are we just, we're both like drawing blanks on every name.
Anyway, I'll link it. I love them. They are evangelists and Preston speaks very openly about his interaction with porn in a Christian marriage and you know his wife didn't know about it and it was the exact same thing and when I sent that to Adam I was like hey, know listen to this because this like sex has been a constant conversation for us because it's like okay Well, we can we can't we can't we can't you know, and then there with natural family planning there could be very long stretches of
time where you're not connected sexually as a couple and like don't confuse the terms between sexuality and intimacy because you can be incredibly intimate without ever having sex and you can have sex without being intimate at all i.e rape right that is not a level of intimacy so the two lines i think need to be delineated at times and for us i think those wires were definitely getting crossed and
Tiffany Wickes (28:36.182)
I sent him this podcast like, listen to this. This sounds a lot like, it was about, you know, pornography being of the devil and it's really meant to destroy marriages. And he made a comment. It was just kind of a off the cuff comment. Like I can identify with him. And like when he said it and I looked at him, I'm like, he's identifying in a whole different way. And like we were, I don't know, we were downstairs with the kids. It was right in the middle of the hustle bustle. I'm like, all right, I can't bring this up right now. But, and I'm actually glad that God kind of ordained this.
this moment such as he did because had we been private I think it would have gone very poorly let's just say that because whether wherever you're at in your marriage when it comes to sex and what's allowed what's not like for us pornography is a betrayal in our marriage and to hear that I'm like I think he's had I think he's had an encounter with pornography I'm like huh
Definitely bring that up later, but because I had like four hours that I had to just sit with that information, my brain started going around and around like, okay, well, what if it is? Like, is my reaction gonna be? Am I gonna punch him in the face? Seems like a good one, but probably not the most productive. So nope, not gonna do that. I could yell, I could cry, because I want to. I mean, there was like, how do I react to this? And then I started like, okay, reaction, maybe like, who cares? There's an authentic reaction happening in my
right now but let's get to the why let's get to the how did that even start so I started backing up in my mind okay he was talking about relating to the podcast what was he talking about the podcast and that's what it was it was about desire
And then that's what opened up that conversation later that evening when all the stuff was done and he's just chilling. I'm like, I need to talk to you a little bit more about that comment you made. And he's like, OK. I mean, I'll be frank. mean, you look like you had a little bit of fear in your eyes when I brought that up. And then I just asked point blank, are you watching porn? And he said, no, not right now. But I have.
Tiffany Wickes (30:39.378)
And I mean, you cut it off before we kind of figured this out, just of your own free will and knowing that that was a betrayal in your marriage and you wanted to fix it. But me knowing now...
that the root of that was so easy to fix. And that's what, that's like the big takeaway here. If you know your husband is engaging in porn and this is a line that you guys had agreed upon that you did not want to cross in a marriage, it really could be just as simple as understanding his motivation. And it isn't, I mean, you tell me, but I didn't see it as your motivation was you just weren't getting enough sex. It was to have
Woman, mean preferably your own but if it's not gonna be your own having any woman desire you because that does something in a man's mind I mean it Like validates you right as a man. You tell me you're you're a man You tell me what that does for you in your mind to feel desired because it's got to be more than just sexual
It's like you just want to be the you want to be the man you want to be the provider you want I mean everything we do from working out getting sleep having a nice car from like age 12 on is about impressing You know a potential mate and it does not like it stops when you get married Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing is you want to be
Like you're attracted to your wife, I'm attracted to my wife, and you wanna have that, you wanna be, feel like you're attracted to them. In that way. So, all right, so to flip that on, like after we had that conversation and then I understood a little bit better where that came from, my first reaction was an apology. Now I wasn't actually asking for him to apologize to me. I offered an apology to you.
Tiffany Wickes (32:44.664)
How did that make you? Well, first off, I'll tell you what I apologized for. And I know some of you right now are probably like, what were you saying sorry for? You weren't the one doing it. Here's what I was sorry for. I was sorry for not creating a safe space for you to be honest with me that you were struggling in that department because it was clearly a struggle. You are a man of great virtue, great honor.
General on it. mean and you were honest. I mean it was You left it out, right? You didn't tell me about it. So it wasn't forthrightly Dishonest you didn't lie. I asked you you told me and had I asked you three years ago You would have told me but I didn't ask because I didn't think I had to right It was never even a thought in my mind that you would have engaged in that realm, but
You know, I'm really glad that God brought that to our attention. And I did ask and you know, I asked a bunch of other questions like, Hey, have you had an affair? No, no, no. I'm like, okay. And yes, I do believe that you're a hundred percent honest with me. And once I understood the root of the problem, I feel like it was really easy to fix. And it was like, okay, well the real question was, do you actually desire him? Like, of course. So, okay. So, but then that led into the other conversation about, okay, but when I do have
advances during the day where I just want to touch you in a way that you like, here's what's happening and that's why I'm pulling back. So then that led to you doing the internal work to understand how to create a safe space for me to not feel rejected because that's another thing we hadn't yet talked about is when
It's not like I was rejecting. I mean, you saw it as me rejecting it, right? If it was like, hey, you know, scooting over in the bed, starting the feel up process. I'm like, okay, I know you want sex, but I'm exhausted. Like we, we didn't know yet that we had to get into, I don't know what, like a demilitarized zone where we just had to like lay down the weapons of the day. We didn't know that that transitionary period needed to happen. And for you that happens faster. Like the kids are in bed five minutes later, ready to go. And for me,
Tiffany Wickes (34:54.69)
That's going to take a little bit longer because I'm the primary caregiver of these children. You might be home, but you're in the garage hanging things up. You're outside mowing the grass. I still have seven people asking me for things, you know, all day long, every 10 minutes. We're feeding kids, seems like, dealing with bites and all the things. So for me, it just takes longer to just chill, enter this chill mode. And for you, it goes faster. And then when we're looking at the time and it's 10 p.m., it's like, well, we need to get on this or we're going to be exhausted tomorrow. It's like, well, I can't just
get on this like figuratively and literally like I can't do it I've got to have some time but we didn't understand what that time looked like so you saw the like not tonight as a rejection so then the next day you weren't affectionate or you weren't even open to my advances and affection like was that conscious for you that you were essentially rejecting me
Tiffany Wickes (36:09.326)
Yeah, maybe a little bit of immaturity too. Because like I said rationally, if I go back and think, OK, I know what's going on, like this, this, and this.
But we also, you know, we've talked about a lot over the years, you know, or at least I had a question in my mind, like, okay, maybe there's, maybe there's something wrong with me. Like maybe there's something wrong with you. Like maybe I've got this like abnormally high accelerator and you've gotten abnormally low. Like maybe, I mean, is there like drugs we should be taking and just weird stuff like that.
which to me it was like there's no question that's not the case. But that had to come through education, just understanding. And I think a lot of it also is, you know, just me finding that podcast that the first one was to Michael Malice, like that wouldn't have existed five, 10 years ago, at least not in the realms, you know, in the, the world's most people are in. Like, so the stuff is just being talked about more and more. There's more and more books coming out. And I think it's.
We're just learning a lot more about it and people are more open about it. So it's not, you're not just trying to like, it's not just me and you trying to figure this all out. You know, we've got, you know, people that can say like, here's what's a little more normal. Here's what's not. And what I've basically figured out is we're 100 % within the meat of the bell curve.
Right and like there for a minute you were starting to think like you had some sex addiction that you needed to get treatment for and crap and I was like No, you're not a sex addicts. Like I don't even know what what would constitute a sex addict But I was like you're definitely not that he's like no something definitely ain't right with me and like no I think things are right but you know, it was always like we just can't quite figure out where Where our axes are just they're not crossing where they need to be so that we're both like underserved
Tiffany Wickes (38:03.632)
understanding each other and respecting each other's individual bodies? Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I never felt like I disrespected your body. Well, no, no, no, like how it functions. No, you never have disrespected my body, but just how I function. understand a lot more.
knowledge is power and so it's you know you can just just one more thing you can take back like okay when you're you know acting a certain way towards me like I'm like there's I don't take it personally at all anymore it's just okay no I get it
That's, I mean, it's really that simple, but, you know, again, and actually that's the combination of you and me. other people are going to have different, a different combination. And, but just, I think just understanding that, cause you've read stories of the exact opposite where the woman was a high accelerator and the guy was a
accelerator and it was the same it was identical problem just in reverse and like I said there's nothing wrong with it it's just different yeah so I mean that's like the biggest takeaway I think is trying to have really honest conversations about how your guys's individual bodies work and then I mean when it came to the desire side you know I was like okay well you you want to be desired you want to see something desirous more than just like okay I'm naked let's do it you know so that opened the conversation
into like what could we do that could be a little bit more bring a little bit more fun into the game and you know I've got a pole that a dancing it's a stripper pole okay yep it's a stripper pole and we've had that for years right and I was like well I'll just like kind of use it for fitness and then if he enjoys watching then I guess that's okay but at the time I don't think that I was quite secure in my body or that are you sure you're gonna like me with my ass right up in your nose and like jiggling around and he's like I assure you I
Tiffany Wickes (39:55.296)
But I don't know, we just were not comfortable yet having that open and honest of a conversation. And maybe I wasn't totally confident in my own body at that point to do that. So now we've moved past that into like, okay, well, flirty clothes, lingerie, would that be kind of fun? And I'm like, yeah, I think it would be. So I've gotten to a place, I think our fitness plays into that. Like we're both really fit people. We work out, like we love the bodies that we're in. And now we are just so much more willing
to share that with each other in a really open way. like yeah, I dance like once a month and we kind of code it now. like, are we going to go to the club tonight? It's like, yeah, let's put that up. Let's do that. So I've got like fun little like lights and I've got fun shoes and I've got fun outfits and I get to create this different character.
For us that's still me and I mean, okay, I'm just gonna let you in on this I know this is goofy, but I am I am a very moral person So, you know whenever we like kind of fantasy roleplay it has to be done in a moral way I won't play the game. So he's like, okay, you can be the girl and the thing I'm like, no, but we're married we have to still be married So anyway, it's kind of funny if you listen to that banter if you could hide a microphone in our lapel and hear how I'm still trying to keep it moral
He's like, okay, let's work around that. But in our fantasy and in our real life, we're still the stars of the show for each other. So that's created a lot more fun to an engagement with us. It's just playful. Yes, has happened after every episode of going to the club, up in the club. But.
It's not a requirement and I know that now. So during the day has been a lot more fun with him around because I can be cooking and he can come up behind me and wrap his arms around my waist. And now I feel free to like lay my head back into his collar and then just like let him rock with my body instead of being like, God, if I advance, if I return this, he's going to think it's on and then I can't have it's on. And then he's going to feel all but hurt and rejected. And then he's going to be emotionally unavailable to me for the rest of the day.
Tiffany Wickes (42:11.114)
which is what was happening previous but now he's like okay if i want to be desired i actually have to let her
show desire and then we can check in midday like how are you feeling and for me I think that helps set it up like tee up an evening it's like hey how are you feeling how's the day gone for you it's like actually it's going really well and you know you've been super helpful to me I've been helpful to you we've been great partners like yeah I think I think this is something that I would like to work toward this evening and it's like okay cool but this isn't a contract where now I'm sorry you signed the dotted line at 3 p.m. now you got to put out tonight like it shouldn't be like that because
this isn't transactional. is how can we connect and make this sacred between the two of us. And if it becomes contractual and you know just an exchange of goods like that feels gross. Like you can do that with anyone else in the world that you know has the proper well I guess they don't even have to have the proper goods anymore.
But he talked about, you know, of the the most important things, right? And it's, it's cliche to say, but you know, communication, but that has to be, you know, especially in this realm, like that's huge. You have to be able to communicate your desires without, the other, and the receiving party has to be able to just.
accept that you know not judge it and just be like but at the same time be like well yeah we could do that we're like that might be outside of my comfort zone right whatever it is both sides and and kind of you he talks about that as being like negotiation but that you negotiate in every part of your life
Tiffany Wickes (43:56.014)
Right and like how we're gonna pay bills like, you know, where are we gonna take the kids to school? Who's gonna do what around the house? It's just another thing So if you're having problems with that, it's gonna translate into You know my gosh, I think your sexual health health is or lack thereof is an indication of your health in every area of your life like Financially, you're probably struggling to just as a couple you're probably struggling
in that area. You're probably struggling as teammates and parents. So I mean, I think a large part of the reason we're talking about this is because second to money, sex is the number two reason people divorce. And oftentimes people just lay it out there like, I'm not getting enough of it. End of discussion. It's like, dude, there is a lot more discussion that needs to be had to get more of what you desire. And it's probably not in the way you think. So 19 years of working this out.
we've always been intentional in pursuing what I would think is optimal for the both of us. And I think every time you like place a rejection, if you will, like you have to come to the table with something else, right? So if your husband's like, Hey, I would love for you to wear lingerie. And you're like, Ooh, okay. If it's like, I don't want to wear lingerie. It's like, okay, well, maybe I will wear lingerie, but maybe it needs to start off just being like booty shorts and a tank top. But you can't just like throw it. I mean, you shouldn't just throw it out wholesale.
There's a whole graded medium between hardly there, crotchless, this that and the other, to booty shorts and a tank top if you normally go to bed in sweatpants. That would be really, really sexy to him. And then eventually, as you learn to trust a little bit more and open up a little bit more and you have this level of safety within each other's presence, I think that you can start meeting more in the middle. If you're on opposite ends, you can start chunking away at it and coming to a middle ground.
Music, we'll put that playlist. That's been fun. So we found Shalene Johnson at a sex playlist and we've been utilizing it and it's fun. It kind of does set the mood. So I'm digging that. Do have any parting words? I know it feels like we're cutting it off abruptly, but if you're interested in hearing more of this topic, we could certainly come back on and talk more about it. But what do you want to leave the friends with?
Tiffany Wickes (46:23.854)
You know, for me, just that understanding of just how human beings are just different, but normal. You different and normal at the same time. it's awesome. I'll leave it at that then. Different and normal. Same time. They can coexist. Well, thank you for talking about it. I know that is way more outside your comfort zone and I appreciate you meeting me in the middle. Sure. Love you. Love you too. Bye